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How to deal with decal silvering?
rochaped
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Lisboa, Portugal
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 616 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2018 - 09:22 PM UTC
Thank you everyone who had the time to read and respond to my question.

Terri, Iím afraid I had the same result Spud had, meaning the glue started dissolving the undelaying paint coat.

Che-yi
Thanks for the tip, I do not posses the lacquer thinner made by Gunze, only their aqueous version. Still if I get one Iíll definitly they it
roxinnccu
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Taiwan / 台灣
Joined: January 21, 2014
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Posted: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - 05:39 AM UTC
After years of dealing with Japanese made pizza-like decals, I find that there is one sort-of killing method to force those pizza comply: "Spray a thin layer of GUNZE Lacquer thinner on those decals", of course, by very low pressure.

The method basically "melt down" the carrier film, no matter how thick of it,even don't need to care if glued firmly, no silvering will exist whatsoever , only the thickness of the decal itself will be remaining problem.

It's some kind of Plan-Desperate of course, thin & good quality decals like Two-Bobs don't need it at all.

thegirl
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 6,611 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - 05:07 AM UTC
Yes , one does need a very steady hand and I have goofed a couple of times using this method , eyesight isn't what it used to be anymore . I've been using this method now for very many years . Working with lozenge decals on German WW 1 subjects , decals can be very challenging at times .


Spud , sorry to hear the your results didn't work and glad that you tested it first , but it does take practice , took me awhile to get the hang of it .

Hope you find a solution , lets us know what ended working for you .




Terri
Joel_W
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Saturday, January 20, 2018 - 08:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If you use Tamiya thin or their super fast setting which works better . Place a small drop of glue on the decal and it will suck it right down . Even works over surfaces already sealed . Try in a same area fist though .



Terri



Terri,
Honestly, I'd be petrified that that the Extra thin would get on to the sealed paint and eat right through it. I shake some these days, and your procedure really needs a rock steady hand.

Joel
Willard79
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Wellington, New Zealand
Joined: June 01, 2014
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Posted: Saturday, January 20, 2018 - 02:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

If you use Tamiya thin or their super fast setting which works better . Place a small drop of glue on the decal and it will suck it right down . Even works over surfaces already sealed . Try in a same area fist though .

Terri



Whaaa? I'm going to have to make an effort and try this. Mind blown.
cheers.



Ok, so I did try this.First I want to stress that I'm not disputing this hasn't worked with anyone else, but just reporting my experience and observations.
I tried it on some Airfix decals, that didn't have a clear coat. I used Tamiya extra thin and I wiped the brush tip down so I didn't have any risk of it wicking where I didn't want it. Straight away the cement attacked and dissolved the ink and smeared it around.
Next I tried it on the decal sheet, but just with a drop to avoid any risk of smearing the ink, but again, it attacked the ink right away and also tended to wick away from where I wanted it.

Quite possibly there is a workflow where it works well, my testing was all of about 5 min but based on those observations, it's not something I'd be doing again.

cheers.
U-mark
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Alabama, United States
Joined: January 04, 2017
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2018 - 07:27 PM UTC
Another possibility is Solvaset by Walthers. When I started modeling it was about the only decal setting solution around. It is pretty reactive, but I have rarely had bad results with it. I also agree with and use the pin prick and slicing method on difficult decals with good results. Good Luck, Mark
thegirl
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Friday, January 12, 2018 - 06:42 PM UTC
Yes Pedro , you understood correctly . I ust Tamiya thin for decals which won't behave . I had to use Tamiya thin on my last Mustang build for the checker decals on the cowl . Micro set and sol weren't cutting it and needed something stronger . Just be careful on how much is applied , to much and it will ruin the surface .



Terri
rochaped
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Lisboa, Portugal
Joined: August 27, 2010
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Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 03:18 AM UTC
[quote]If you use Tamiya thin or their super fast setting which works better . Place a small drop of glue on the decal and it will suck it right down . Even works over surfaces already sealed . Try in a same area fist though .

Hi Terri,

This is something out of the box for me...do I understand it correctly, use thin liquid glue?

@ Chris - will post a pic soon. I did remove one decal and tried using Klear as a setting agent but the end result was exactly the same...,silvering appeared.

@ Joel- thanks mate, I do not have Mr Mark range, and never saw it selling on local shops, but I did (do) use Microscale Set and Sol solutions on most decal application I do. However these products had little effect over these decals.




Willard79
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Wellington, New Zealand
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Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 03:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If you use Tamiya thin or their super fast setting which works better . Place a small drop of glue on the decal and it will suck it right down . Even works over surfaces already sealed . Try in a same area fist though .

Terri



Whaaa? I'm going to have to make an effort and try this. Mind blown.
cheers.
Joel_W
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 - 11:38 PM UTC
Pedro,
I've changed my decaling procedures, and solutions quite abit over the last year or so, as I've had issues with to thick or poorly adhering decals that contribute to silvering and flash issues.

I'm not a fan by any means of using Pledge/Future as a setting agent. Honestly, I've stopped using it for anything but small decal applications where I just need to apply the gloss base by hand.

I do spend more time on a smoother decaling surface then ever before. I polish the color coat, as well as the clearcoat to achieve the smoothest surface I can attain. that prep step will take care of the majority of silvering issues.

The next step is to get every decal to settle down snuggly up against the glossed surface no matter how concave or convex it may be. For this is start off with the Micro system giving each chemical at least a min to soak into the decal and do its thing. then I roll the decal with a damp Q tip. Every decal gets a final coating of Solvaset that will really suck it down, and I don't touch it until it's almost dry, then it gets rolled again.

But there are times when I need to up my game as the decal just won't conform, especially Asian kit decals (which I try to avoid), so I pull out the big guns, Mr. Mark Set and Sol. They're super strong and have never let me down to date. But I only use them in situations as a last resort.

Joel
thegirl
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: January 19, 2008
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Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 05:35 AM UTC
If you use Tamiya thin or their super fast setting which works better . Place a small drop of glue on the decal and it will suck it right down . Even works over surfaces already sealed . Try in a same area fist though .



Terri
c4willy
#305
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Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted: Thursday, January 04, 2018 - 02:27 AM UTC
Most welcome Pedro! I'd be interested in seeing the finished product Pedro if you wouldn't mind sharing?
rochaped
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Lisboa, Portugal
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 616 posts
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Posted: Thursday, January 04, 2018 - 02:16 AM UTC
HelŠs, I have them sealed with a clear cote layer, in past occurrences this had cured any sign of silvering.
Unfortunately this time it did not...like I said earlier, the decal quality isnít brilliant and the carrier film is a bit thick, but itís the only game in town if one is looking for the stencils used in German bombs.

On the other hand the decal sheet is plentiful so I have more decal available for those bombs.
Thank you both my friends!
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Thursday, January 04, 2018 - 01:14 AM UTC
Pedro, I agree with Chris-- if you can remove them and start over, it might be better-- it just depends on what the model is and how you feel about it. Unless I know how a decal will behave, I always put a gloss coat layer under the decal, this eliminates most, if not all silvering. Short of that, if you don't want to remove the decal, rather than "pin-pricking" it, use a surgeon's scalpel or an unused razor blade to "slice" through the decal film. In several places. Then brush on either Future (Pledge with Future-- also known as Klear) or lightly brush on the clear topcoat over the offending decal. That can help quite a bit, and if you're careful, can be repeated to eliminate much of the silvering.
VR, Russ
c4willy
#305
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Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted: Thursday, January 04, 2018 - 12:53 AM UTC
Hi Pedro do you have replacement decals you could use? Because the next idea is to use tape of some sort to remove the offending decal and to replace it and use your Klear equivalent to stick it down.
rochaped
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Lisboa, Portugal
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 616 posts
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Posted: Thursday, January 04, 2018 - 12:14 AM UTC
Hi Chris,

Thanks for replying! I use a Klear similar product from a domestic company, but never in the way youíre suggesting, which is quite ingenious. I use as gloss layer over which I apply the decals.
The problem here is the tiny size of each decal, so small that even a needle puncture will damage it
But will remember your tip for any future issue
Cheers
Pedro
c4willy
#305
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Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted: Thursday, January 04, 2018 - 12:07 AM UTC
Hi Pedro I've had some success with gently puncturing the offending decal with a sharp needle and then applying Klear (A future equivalent) with a brush. It usually gets drawn under the decal by capillary action and will effectively glue the decal to the model. I usually float my decals on Klear and use that as sort of an adhesive to get it to snug down and it works pretty well to even on Tamiya decals.
rochaped
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Lisboa, Portugal
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 616 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 - 11:50 PM UTC
Hi everyone,

So I used some tiny decals that make for ammo stencil, from a brand that I never used or knew about.

All of the decals silvered a lot, so itís not the occasional blunder I can make, itís really the decals fault.
Now, I used micro sol & set, applied Tamiya clear over them, used a blow drier...all to little effect.
Any suggestions you guys know that might help eliminate the darn silvering?

Thanks!
Pedro